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JLPT grammar level decisions?? 
2nd-Aug-2017 10:29 pm
akira hikikomori
(x-posted to learning_japanese on DW)

there's one thing i've noticed. with certain grammar points either it comes up completely randomly in one sentence out of 10 anime episodes or there's "that one character" who always says it, like "albeit" versus "but/however" in english. now there's points even rarer than that, and what i don't understand is WHERE these points are being used in the japanese language to make them be this or that level on the JLPT.

for example, ものの is something i've only ever seen like once out of like 80 anime eps so far; and i've been watching everything from detective shows to slice-of-life to sports anime. yet ものの is JLPT level 2, and level 1 is the hardest test level. obviously there's some kind of genre where ものの is in constant use that the JLPT is expecting you to be reading/watching, right? what is that genre?!

といい といい, ごとき, 極めて, 始末, ってば have shown up at least 5-10 times. ぶり, それまでだ, すら at least 20 times. and yet these are supposedly N1 level! だって shows up like every two pages in half the manga you'll read, but it's N2 level and not N4!

have you guys noticed anything with this? where the heck am i supposed to go if i want to drill ものの into my brain for example? and there's plenty of N1 ones i feel like i haven't seen even once (though i might have just not noticed them when i did see them), ex: だの~だの, かれ~かれ, も顧みず, のなんのって, とみるや, のみか (though i've seen the plain のみ).
2nd-Aug-2017 10:50 pm (UTC)
There are a lot of things that come out on N2 and N1 that even locals are like "We don't really use this..." it's just slamming it in to our brains to pass, then forgetting it lol.
3rd-Aug-2017 12:28 am (UTC)
This yup. I'm a Japanese translator working with a team of native translators. Even then, we don't use the fancy grammar like what appears in N1 XD;
3rd-Aug-2017 03:44 am (UTC)
Yeah. Then when you use it. They all stare at you even more squinty-eyed than usual. Lol. Sometimes I do it on purpose.
5th-Aug-2017 01:55 am (UTC)
Based on the "study lists" I've found, all the "grammar" on the N2 and 1/3rd to 1/2 of N1 is super useful for anime/manga. Buuut where's the rest of it...!!
5th-Aug-2017 02:24 am (UTC)
I don't watch anime or read Manga, so I can't talk in reference for that. But I know that a lot of the stuff, you won't ever actually use in daily scenario.
23rd-Aug-2017 10:43 am (UTC)
I don't mind if it's not in "daily" use (it's my hobby to read 200-300-year-old books in other languages for example, I also enjoy dialects, so if it's in "archaic/dialectal daily use" that's still useful to me), but even if it's NOT in any of my interests I just want to know where in the world it is in order to understand why it's even on the JLPT! For example, now I made a new friend from Hokkaido who uses ものの constantly in super-informal writing. So at least now I know, for ものの try and find Hokkaido people. But the rest of the grammar?? The curiosity is killing me!

I want to master Japanese, so I really do want to know everything I possibly can — even weird, rare grammar. It feels like if it's on a grammar list somewhere and I haven't seen it, it means I have tons of holes in my Japanese in general (which is obvious, me being only at N2 level, but still). I just need lots of (in-context) examples to learn, which is what grammar study books/JLPT grammar pages don't really give me lol.

Edited at 2017-08-23 10:46 am (UTC)
23rd-Aug-2017 11:10 am (UTC)
Then I'm useless in this situation. I have no desire to master the language. As long as I can tell my boo to help with the dishes, and my kid to stop eating dirt, I'm good, hehe.
23rd-Aug-2017 07:22 pm (UTC)
That's me with my wife's language (Swedish) so I completely understand where you're coming from haha. I don't have any interest in Swedish anything, no media, no job (something unrelated to what language I speak), the traditional stuff that I WOULD have interest in is basically all dead (usually thanks to Christianity or the USA...) or insanely expensive/impossible to do (ex. sure, you can make anything out of birch bark, but since you can't BUY birch bark you first have to literally have a neighbour or grandma who just happens to own a birch forest — which is how everyone else is doing it). So even after five years of living in Sweden I'm still not exactly as good as a native, and I don't really care since it doesn't actually normally affect my life.

But I fell in love with Japan/Japanese in elementary school and I'm still here today!!
5th-Aug-2017 01:46 am (UTC)
I feel like it's all gotta be used somewhere, I just have to find out the "genre"... pre-WWII stuff maybe? Set phrases? Sigh!
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