外国語を習うと、同じ語族の中に言語一を以上習いたいのです。例えば、アイスランド語
The English translation, in case I managed to so mangle my Japanese that my intention became completely scrambled:
When learning a language, one often wishes to learn more than one language within the same language family. For example, I'm learning Icelandic and I also have an interest in other Scandinavian languages. But even though I'm most interested in Icelandic, it's a little hard to learn. So I think it'd be a good idea to learn an related language like Norewegian because i would probably be easier. Similarly, I think other language families have "gateway languages." A gateway language is an easy to learn language. After you've learned it, difficult to learn but related langauges are easy to learn because you already know the cognates and grammatical similarities. If that's the case, then no matter what language family is under consideration, then if you're going to learn all the languages in one language family, learning the gateway language is really useful. Within the language family you pick the easiest language and once you're fluent, it should be easy to pick up the related languages. Take for example my friend Kelsey. First she learned German and then she learned Danish and Norwegian. Now she can understand Swedish and Icelandic, even if she can't speak them fluently she can understand them completely. Studying Japanese and Chinese is a little bit different, but because of kanji there are similarities. If you come to
understand kanji's Chinese readings, it's easy to memorize the pronunciation of the words that are the same or similar in Japanese, Chinese and Korean. There are a lot of similar words. For example, the English word "teacher" is said "sensei" in Japanese and "seonsaeng" in Korean. Moreover, the English words meaning university, student, library, newspaper and more, when compared in Japanese and Korean there are many points of similarity. Of course, these words are all related to Chinese, so even if they are similar, the native Japanese and Korean words will not. Moreover, it goes without saying that if you're studying related languages simultaneously you can become confused by similar words, but since you'll still understand, it's no big deal. If you continue to study hard, you can learn any language you want.
I'm looking at this and laughing over how little effort went into making sure I wasn't just making grammar up, but hey, I'm too 下手 to fix it myself, so here goes.
July 14 2005, 06:34:04 UTC 6 years ago
I've not a native speaker, but maybe someone who is can look for more subtle things that might need to be changed.
Good job =)
July 14 2005, 06:39:07 UTC 6 years ago
Ah. Yeah, it's such a pain for me to proofread anything, let alone Japanese. But I see where you're referring to.
"And also in your 3rd sentence, da should be omitted - narainikui to omoimasu."
Hey, didn't know that. Why is that? Or is it something ridiculous that I should already know? I had assumed that since 習いにくい was an adjective that I'd need the copula, unless I'm just forgetting that an adjective + と思う doesn't need one. Which is likely.
Thank you!
July 14 2005, 06:50:21 UTC 6 years ago
にくい is an い形容詞 so you don't use だ at all. Also, as you probably know, with 動詞 (verbs) you don't need the だ either.
July 14 2005, 06:53:39 UTC 6 years ago
July 14 2005, 06:55:57 UTC 6 years ago
July 14 2005, 07:28:45 UTC 6 years ago
July 14 2005, 10:40:16 UTC 6 years ago
July 14 2005, 15:09:11 UTC 6 years ago
語族の中に一番安い言語を選んでペラペラになると
安いmeans "cheap". If you use やすい with a verb, like you did in some parts, it means "easier to ~" So I think what you want to say is, "一番簡単な言語"
Also, I notice you use ~ます in some places, and then use informal things such as ~って in others. ~という
Be careful with this: 関してる (I do this a lot) ~ている is proper, even informally. ~てる is colloquial.
日本語と中国を勉強することはちょっと違いですが
違いがありますが- I think this is correct, or 違いますが I believe the former means "difference" and the latter means "different"
I leave the rest up to a Japanese person. I wrote monthly newsletters in Japanese for my students, and I know how it feels to have my collegue mark the entire thing in red for me to fix, but don't give up! I think it's great that you're taking the time to write things in Japanese!
Just a little thing though from reading this... Japanese may use Chinese characters, but the language is not very similar. Case in point, 手紙 reads as "letter" in Japanese. In Chinese, it reads as "toilet paper". I can read Japanese alright... but going to a Chinese site, I am lost, minus a couple kanji combinations here and there that I can understand.
The pronunciation of Kanji in the two languages is totally different. The Japanese language lacks a lot of sounds that Chinese has. Chinese uses a few thousand more Kanji than Japanese uses. Also, doesn't Korean primarily use Hangul? Korean sounds a lot like Japanese to me, but I cannot make any sense of it. I don't really know how the talk of "gateway" languages fits in with these three very different ones.
Also... this is just my opinion- I'm not trying to offend- but what makes a language any easier than another? I definitely agree with you in that if you work hard, you can learn any language. But it takes time. And even having perfect grammar does not mean that what you say will be understood by native speakers of the language you are learning.
July 14 2005, 17:26:52 UTC 6 years ago
What makes a language easier than another is strictly relative to the person learning it. That's why you have to figure it out yourself. I think Icelandic is about half as hard as Japanese, but someone who just can't understand grammatical case would probably disagree. Also, since I read alot, my primary focus would be to understand whatever I'm presented in, not necessarily communicate in it.
And like I said, I was rambling when I wrote this. I think it's a pretty ridiculous idea now, but that's how it came out at 1 in the morning ; )
July 14 2005, 17:27:37 UTC 6 years ago
July 14 2005, 19:54:07 UTC 6 years ago
No harm in rambling... I wasn't sure if you were working on a paper or something. すみません m(-ー)m
July 14 2005, 22:12:34 UTC 6 years ago
Yeah, if I were working on a paper (for reals, yo) I'd probably make sure, you know, my thesis wasn't really silly ^_^;
July 14 2005, 23:33:30 UTC 6 years ago
I studied Chinese in college, and while it's not related to Japanese other than the characters and all the loanwords, being able to read the characters did help a great deal. Even now, I know some Chinese so I can read the headlines, but half the words I say them to myself in my head in Japanese as I don't know the Chinese for it.
I think English is crazy when it comes to things like "run->ran" "sing->sung" "bring->brought". Classmates would ask me, why is it like that? and I just have to say "I have NO idea!" Really, it just sounds right! Similarly though I have people learning Japanese ask about pronunciations of kanji words, where there are two onyomi, which is it? Well, you sound it out, and one is a word you know and makes sense! But there's not usually a logical reason - other than, of course, the different onyomi come from different adoptions and if just happened to know the detailed origin of each word, maybe you could guess, but that's not at all helpful. Just have to memorize them. It's like tough, through, though, cough, hiccough, trough, dough...
"ough," how do you say it? Crazy.
I've worked on programs dealing with verb conjugations and for those, we had one number for each kind of conjugation there is and a data entry person (me) put the correct number on for each word, from a human knowledge of it. When you look at the total list, there were quite a few. English plurals too, had quite a few varieties - you can guess by some rules, but it's not 100% predictable.
Ah, humans!
I have comments about the bits up top but I will put those in another message.
July 15 2005, 02:08:32 UTC 6 years ago
"I say them to myself in my head in Japanese as I don't know the Chinese for it."
I do that too! Although sometimes I'll only know the Chinese for something, or the other way around, but it's funny.
"I think English is crazy"
Definitely. Although stuff like "ring->rang" is pretty understandable if you know more about Germanic languages. Most Germanic languages have a couple of classes of verbs, one of which undergoes vowel shifts in various conjugations. Because English has had a lot of influence from French, these distinctions have eroded or changed, so they're even more irregular.
"Similarly though I have people learning Japanese ask about pronunciations of kanji words, where there are two onyomi, which is it?"
Oof, yeah, that is a pain.
Yeah, language does some weird stuff.
July 14 2005, 23:34:35 UTC 6 years ago
Found out today one of my coworkers speaks quite a bit of Icelandic - small world!
July 15 2005, 02:03:01 UTC 6 years ago
Although Finnish can sometimes resemble Japanese's subject-object-verb sentence structure, because Finnish has a fairly free word order.
Hooray for Icelandic! I think it would be really cool if I could somehow find a job that required me to move between Japan and Iceland. *dream*
July 14 2005, 23:45:23 UTC 6 years ago
Some things... To say generally "when you..." you should have するとき。「XXXするとYYY」 means that if you do XXX, then as a result of it necessarily in the general case YYY will happen. But here, based on the English version, you are making a suggestion.
Also to say 「したい」is only if you are wanting to do something. If someone is wanting it, you can say 「したいようだ」or 「したいそうだ」or 「したいという」(so, "seems" or "they said..." or "I heard...") or you can say 「したがる」although it's more directly assuming you know and so not as formal(?). But here, if you say "one wants..." it's more you are saying, people...
Ack, I have to go. I will write more afterwards.
July 15 2005, 04:39:40 UTC 6 years ago
"languages of the same language family" you can do it short, just 「同じ語族の言語」you don't need to mess with the 「の中の」。
To say "more than one", to say XXX以上 is "XXX and above" where XXX is included in. So to say "more than one" is technically 「二つ以上」because you do not include one. 「一つ以上」means "one or more." But, in the case of your sentence, maybe 「複数」is good, meaning "more than one" or "plural." It gives a good sense of contrasting with only one, but not making you think of high numbers.
「外国語を習うとき、人はよく同じ語族の言語を複数習いたくなるものです」
「人はよく…」is "people often..." if you want "people generally..." then
「外国語を習うとき、人はだいたい同じ語族の言語を複数習いたくなるものです」
/つづく
July 15 2005, 04:45:47 UTC 6 years ago
This was a case of adding meaning to the English translation that wasn't really in (or intended to be in) the Japanese. So the connotation that people in general or "the general human mind" wants to learn more than one language within the language family was really just the result of a sort of iffy translation on my part.
"But, in the case of your sentence, maybe 「複数」is good, meaning "more than one" or "plural.""
Excellent.
"if you want "people generally..." then
「外国語を習うとき、人はだいたい同じ語族の言語を複数習いたくなるものです」"
Awesome.
Thank you very much.